I had planned to write about global warming, but Candidate Perry, is more fun.
If the republicans actually did do what they say they will do, I and my family would pay less FEDERAL taxes. And that is a fact. Boy that would be sweet. I could run out and buy an American car made with Japanese , Chinese, Mexican parts, get a new washing machine, from a store with just above minimum wage and no benefits, the Washer is made in Mexico, if I'm lucky.
But wait, if the Federal Government is getting less money, than the State gets less money from the Federal Government. So where does the state and city get their money??? I know, they raise my taxes !!
The current tax laws on all levels need to be fixed. The fact that you really need an accountant or lawyer to figure them out, speaks to an issue of over complexity. However, we cannot escape, that as Americans, we expect certain services to be provided. So we return to the question, which services don't you want? Shall we cut out Medicaid? How about medicare? Hell with all that tax collection gone that should off set the cost of medical care. How about not fixing roads and bridges, you don't need no roads or bridges, or wait, we can sell them and privatize them.
We all know how generous private businesses are in giving away free stuff, and you wouldn't complain when there is a toll booth at each red light.
We don't need a military do we? Or not a big one, hell, every American can get an M 16 and a hand grenade, and WE will protect our country. But who goes over sees to protect those private companies that now own America.
THERE ARE NO FREE RIDES !!!!! There is no perfect form of government, no perfect tax system.
The republicans method of taxation would most likely be a huge help in BOOM times. When the economy is blasting along at 4 or 6 percent growth. That's when a flat tax or a value added tax would actually help without destroying our economy.
Lets be clear, I favor privatizing Social Security, as a choice. Give me the choice to either invest on my own or put into the government pot, but not now. We aren't in shape to do it now. The flat tax would help me on the Federal level, but not state or city.
How can you pay the 9 9 9 tax rate and support our society? We don't have enough money now.
Cut out waste and fraud, that is a great idea, but do it now with the current system.
Right now, as we speak, with the current tax structure about 45 percent of the Americans do not pay taxes. Its not fraud, but with the laws, and rules they deduct themselves into NO Taxes.
So these people making 15 to 20 thousand dollars a year will pay 9 percent or 20 percent. And this is gonna grow the economy?
Time for a little math, and this is estimates...after all, I am not a noble winning economist
The estimated budget , money we need to spend for 2012 is 3,729,000,000,000 that 3 trillion dollars in 2012 to keep our society going
The next estimate is that of the 300, million Americans many are children, or people not in a position to pay taxes, so based on returns, there are about 142,000,000 of those folk who pay taxes.
If the current tax structure has half those people 76,000,000 paying lets use Mr. Perry's 20 percent
20 % of 25,000 ( which is a high number for this group ) that means they pay 5000 dollars each. Still leaving the rest of us to pay 3,349,000,000,000 dollars. Oh we are going to cut government programs !!!
Which ones? Privatize social security ? Are we going to tax the money made on our privatized accounts. Well if yes than the tax is NOT 20 percent. How about cutting out college grants ? Road and bridge repair? What are we cutting out. We don't need a space program, let the Chinese do that, and we can lease space on their rockets, cause YOU don't depend on satellites for your phones, TV, news, and media ?
Oh wait you do, and I'm sure the Chinese will give us this for free?? How about getting rid of those annoying police, and firemen, paramedics and ambulances ? We'll get volunteers to work out of there homes. Of course that will make up the difference.
I know close those department that give us and enforce all those stupid government regulations? Because we know how private industry will protect our air, water, and land, the very dirt you stand on.
Without government regulations in the way, business will grow, and toxic dumping in the ponds and streams by your house wont happen will it ? How about something as simple as, construction at midnight next to your home. Hell, its a government regulation that prevents that, but pay those guys some over time and you don't mind a month of two of construction at 2 am outside your window, you can live with that noise for a month or two. You have 20 percent tax rate.
Of course with the reduction in government, those people getting aid who will not be getting aid any more, will just quietly disappear right. They don't need food, medicine, housing, cause there will be plenty of jobs right. Of course the taxes are low now ! and there are NOT plenty of jobs, but all that changes with the 20 percent tax code. Those people won't turn to crime or violence when their survival is threatened.
But we can have more jails and striker laws....oh wait, the means the government has to grow ? But it can't because we have a 20 percent tax code. I know, we pay our police 30,000 dollars a year, and want ever bribes, kickbacks they get they only pay 20 percent taxes on. Than who ever they kidnap they can pay a surcharge to supplement their incomes.
Water belongs with private industry, just ask the folks out in the mid west how that is working out. Yes, we in the city pay tax for water, but they don't get to reduce our water because the aluminum company of a indo-agriculture company wants more water.
People, the tax codes sound great. But if you are NOT dumber than a bunch of rocks, ask your self.
What government program gets cut ? And before you say, you don't care, you really should see if that program, agency, department impacts you, your family, a close friend.
If its true, if you really believe, that the world is really all about me, and no one else matters. than you are right...than it doesn't matter...20 percent taxes, 9 percent, no social security, it doesn't matter.
But I hope for all our sake this is a joke and you care about our society. And if you care, take a closer look at what they are promising and HOW we get it.
If the republicans actually did do what they say they will do, I and my family would pay less FEDERAL taxes. And that is a fact. Boy that would be sweet. I could run out and buy an American car made with Japanese , Chinese, Mexican parts, get a new washing machine, from a store with just above minimum wage and no benefits, the Washer is made in Mexico, if I'm lucky.
But wait, if the Federal Government is getting less money, than the State gets less money from the Federal Government. So where does the state and city get their money??? I know, they raise my taxes !!
The current tax laws on all levels need to be fixed. The fact that you really need an accountant or lawyer to figure them out, speaks to an issue of over complexity. However, we cannot escape, that as Americans, we expect certain services to be provided. So we return to the question, which services don't you want? Shall we cut out Medicaid? How about medicare? Hell with all that tax collection gone that should off set the cost of medical care. How about not fixing roads and bridges, you don't need no roads or bridges, or wait, we can sell them and privatize them.
We all know how generous private businesses are in giving away free stuff, and you wouldn't complain when there is a toll booth at each red light.
We don't need a military do we? Or not a big one, hell, every American can get an M 16 and a hand grenade, and WE will protect our country. But who goes over sees to protect those private companies that now own America.
THERE ARE NO FREE RIDES !!!!! There is no perfect form of government, no perfect tax system.
The republicans method of taxation would most likely be a huge help in BOOM times. When the economy is blasting along at 4 or 6 percent growth. That's when a flat tax or a value added tax would actually help without destroying our economy.
Lets be clear, I favor privatizing Social Security, as a choice. Give me the choice to either invest on my own or put into the government pot, but not now. We aren't in shape to do it now. The flat tax would help me on the Federal level, but not state or city.
How can you pay the 9 9 9 tax rate and support our society? We don't have enough money now.
Cut out waste and fraud, that is a great idea, but do it now with the current system.
Right now, as we speak, with the current tax structure about 45 percent of the Americans do not pay taxes. Its not fraud, but with the laws, and rules they deduct themselves into NO Taxes.
So these people making 15 to 20 thousand dollars a year will pay 9 percent or 20 percent. And this is gonna grow the economy?
Time for a little math, and this is estimates...after all, I am not a noble winning economist
The estimated budget , money we need to spend for 2012 is 3,729,000,000,000 that 3 trillion dollars in 2012 to keep our society going
The next estimate is that of the 300, million Americans many are children, or people not in a position to pay taxes, so based on returns, there are about 142,000,000 of those folk who pay taxes.
If the current tax structure has half those people 76,000,000 paying lets use Mr. Perry's 20 percent
20 % of 25,000 ( which is a high number for this group ) that means they pay 5000 dollars each. Still leaving the rest of us to pay 3,349,000,000,000 dollars. Oh we are going to cut government programs !!!
Which ones? Privatize social security ? Are we going to tax the money made on our privatized accounts. Well if yes than the tax is NOT 20 percent. How about cutting out college grants ? Road and bridge repair? What are we cutting out. We don't need a space program, let the Chinese do that, and we can lease space on their rockets, cause YOU don't depend on satellites for your phones, TV, news, and media ?
Oh wait you do, and I'm sure the Chinese will give us this for free?? How about getting rid of those annoying police, and firemen, paramedics and ambulances ? We'll get volunteers to work out of there homes. Of course that will make up the difference.
I know close those department that give us and enforce all those stupid government regulations? Because we know how private industry will protect our air, water, and land, the very dirt you stand on.
Without government regulations in the way, business will grow, and toxic dumping in the ponds and streams by your house wont happen will it ? How about something as simple as, construction at midnight next to your home. Hell, its a government regulation that prevents that, but pay those guys some over time and you don't mind a month of two of construction at 2 am outside your window, you can live with that noise for a month or two. You have 20 percent tax rate.
Of course with the reduction in government, those people getting aid who will not be getting aid any more, will just quietly disappear right. They don't need food, medicine, housing, cause there will be plenty of jobs right. Of course the taxes are low now ! and there are NOT plenty of jobs, but all that changes with the 20 percent tax code. Those people won't turn to crime or violence when their survival is threatened.
But we can have more jails and striker laws....oh wait, the means the government has to grow ? But it can't because we have a 20 percent tax code. I know, we pay our police 30,000 dollars a year, and want ever bribes, kickbacks they get they only pay 20 percent taxes on. Than who ever they kidnap they can pay a surcharge to supplement their incomes.
Water belongs with private industry, just ask the folks out in the mid west how that is working out. Yes, we in the city pay tax for water, but they don't get to reduce our water because the aluminum company of a indo-agriculture company wants more water.
People, the tax codes sound great. But if you are NOT dumber than a bunch of rocks, ask your self.
What government program gets cut ? And before you say, you don't care, you really should see if that program, agency, department impacts you, your family, a close friend.
If its true, if you really believe, that the world is really all about me, and no one else matters. than you are right...than it doesn't matter...20 percent taxes, 9 percent, no social security, it doesn't matter.
But I hope for all our sake this is a joke and you care about our society. And if you care, take a closer look at what they are promising and HOW we get it.
PART 1 (because there is a 4,096 character count limit to this comment section):
ReplyDeleteI believe that the 9% and 20% plans have exemptions for people making low incomes.
In general, it sounds like you saying in your article that taxing the middle and lower class income earners under a broad-based tax plan would be a mistake in this environment because they are already suffering and have little money and that taxing those with high incomes is a better alternative because they’ll just be living on a smaller but still relatively large amounts compared to the average national income. Do I have that correct?
There is never going to be a “good” time to reform the tax code and if you raise rates on the upper income people until things “get better” I highly doubt you are going to convince the government to undo and lower those rates at a later time. Even if they aren’t actually capturing a lot more from the rich under higher rates, they’ll be addicted to the concept of higher rates.
Instead of taking more money from people to feed the government and its programs (with mandatory spending and defense being the biggest expenditures in terms of absolute dollars), why not create the most attractive environment for those with the highest likelihood of investing to do so, so that GDP can grow?
PART 2:
ReplyDeleteIsn't the issue that we have a growing social welfare system and a large defense budget (in absolute dollars) and we aren't willing to increase taxes on a larger base of income earners to pay for everything? When someone doesn’t have to pay anything to use something (“free”) they tend to have little regard for how much they use of it.
Of course it is difficult to decide what to cut but why do these programs have to grow year after year especially during a time of slow growth? The CBO has “mandatory” spending growing at 5% on average for about the next 10 years, discretionary at 1.5% on average (which includes defense and I believe cuts are planned in this area) and interest on the debt growing at nearly 14% year over year on average. If we don’t want to cut or control spending in those big categories then the debt will grow and more money will go to debt service leaving less for us to spend on important things.
Assume the middle and lower income class use the majority of their money for retail spending and have less for investment while upper income earners have more for investment. The US economy is already overly dependent on consumer spending and those retail spending numbers haven’t been awful lately. The poor and middle class are still spending money despite the massive unemployment.
The economy needs private investment so it can grow and so that there is incentive to create jobs and hire.
I don’t favor Cain or Perry but I agree with the idea that if you apply a lower rate to a broader base, freeing up more money to be invested back in wealth creation by people that are interested in doing such things, so that GDP can increase. Higher GDP, higher tax receipts, more money to spend on things. That's the premise...whether it works that way is a different story. I personally know that the more I am left with the more I invest in things that will appreciate at a faster rate than the growth in my income.
I know you believe that taxes are already low by historical standards, but the idea is to make them lower (for some) but broader and create the perception that we have the most favorable tax environment globally (encouraging more business and investment).
Actual 2010 US income was $12.357T and individual income taxes were about $899Bn.
899Bn/12.357T is about 7.3%. We do not appear to be capturing an optimal amount of income as taxes.
If that number were 20% instead of 7%, that grows personal income taxes to about $2.4T. Of course not that much would be captured and yes people that don’t pay now would have to start to. Yes, that would leave less for retail spending but again, the idea is to grow the economy. Even if you let the poor keep more under the idea that they can spend more, it doesn't really help if the economy isn't growing due to lack of investment. Of course it helps if you have a legal and regulatory system to complement all of this.
Yes, that is still less than budget, but the goal should be to create a tax system that discourages people from cheating and hiding income, easy to apply and monitor, and incentivizes investment. The higher the percentage the more people perceive it as unfair and come up with ways to dodge things. I doubt that increased taxes on the same base that currently pays the vast majority of taxes is going to result in sustainable increases in personal income tax revenues. Politicians aid the process by working with lobbyists to carve out loopholes and such and lo-and-behold, you have our current tax code and system.
PART 3:
ReplyDeleteThe goal is to create a system where GDP can grow faster so you can collect high absolute amount of tax without increasing the percentages to levels that cause a lot of non-compliance.
The goal of a lower corporate taxes rate should be to give people considering opening and starting a business one more reason to do that in the US. Again, if the nominal rate is low and easy to implement and monitor, it should encourage compliance and allow us to capture more of the revenue.
All of these government services don’t create wealth. They are important things to have and create a more pleasant society for us all to live in and yes, the people behind the services spend their income, but it’s a catch-22 because they rely on wealth creators to get that income.
The more you tax people who potentially can work in wealth creation enterprises to give to Social programs and other government services, the more that you hurt those programs and services because there is less left to invest to create more wealth to pay for things.